KB: So, Stu, you and I have both seen one of the year's most anticipated movies, Milk. I'm curious about our reactions, because we both came to from a different place. I saw it before the election, and you saw it after. Also, I'm a gay man, and you're not (aside from that one time at summer camp).
STV: True, true.
KB: So what did you think of it?
STV: I liked it! Well-made prestige Oscar bait.
KB: On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate its Van Santyness? Or perhaps, on a scale of Finding Forrester to Gerry?
STV: 1 being Finding Forrester, Milk is right around a 3.
KB: It's pretty straightforward, except for the occasional fun pop touch. I liked the film too, although I felt it ends better than it begins. The beginning is verrry biopic-y, every introduction is portentous and expositional.
STV: It's a problem throughout, though.
KB: People say things like, "Let me tell you something, CLEVE JONES..." I am pretty sure I never use people's last names when talking to them. Though maybe I would if I knew they'd be famous one day!
STV: Try it with me some time, let's see what happens.
KB: Do you think we'll see a single review of this film that won't mention Milk's parallel to Obama, or Prop 8?
STV: This one won't be it, I guess. I hope so, though.
KB: The Prop 8 stuff is pretty hard to ignore, considering Milk is trying to overturn the anti-gay Prop 6 in the movie. He even makes some remarks, like that the anti-Prop 6 ad campaign was "closeted," that I heard about the "No on 8" campaign.
STV: So we need 100 critics saying it's relevant?
KB: Well, this is a case where I think its relevance will help. Unlike Obama's election lifting The Dark Knight, lazy Academy voters may look at Milk and say, "I will check this box off for activism!" I can see the cocktail party chatter: "Isn't that Prop 8 terrible?" "It sure is. I voted for Sean Penn, by the way."
STV: That doesn't make it a better film, though, is what I'm saying. Which critics will confuse it with.
KB: Sean Penn is great, but what did we think of everyone else?
STV: Waitaminute. Sean Penn is the movie.
KB: I love that the Variety review basically boiled down to, "Sean Penn deserves credit for appearing likable on screen!"
STV: It's a role where so, so much could go wrong, and he hurdles over all of it. The period trappings, the physicality, the presence, the godawful hair...
KB: It's hard to imagine how Robin Williams or Steve Carell could have done it better. What did you think of Josh Brolin? That role could have been even trickier.
STV: I think he's great, but the part of Dan White is underwritten. The guy has no real inner life.
KB: I think all the supporting roles have a lot less to them than you would think going in. Emile Hirsch didn't have much to do besides a dorky dance in group party scenes.
STV: James Franco's character is bizarre. Now you see him, now you don't.
KB: Also, where were these stunt cocks Franco had promised us while doing talk shows? I felt gypped.
STV: Saving it for the DVD, I guess. Is Diego Luna annoying?
KB: Yes, but intentionally? My friend couldn't stand him. I thought that was kind of the point, he's like that guy your friend dates who you can't stand.
STV: It was like with Brolin's character, where he didn't earn the attention our hero devoted to him.
KB: I appreciate all the internecine politics we saw with Dan White and Milk, though. That was, I think, its most notable expansion over The Times of Harvey Milk.
STV: Gosh, now that you say it, I have all kinds of quibbles with this movie. I've already vented some of them, but the politics...I mean we KNOW they fought. So maybe part of my disappointment with Brolin's character is the surface-level whininess that never ever ends. He plays a great drunk, though. Imagine!
KB: He was high on twinkies, Stu. Clearly.
STV: It's true. Forgive me. Give readers one reason to see Milk unrelated to Sean Penn or the political relevance.
KB: [Director of photography] Harris Savides.
STV: DITTO!
KB: It's a very pretty, warm movie. It makes you want to be there, suffering prejudice and getting assassinated.
STV: He's a brilliant cinematographer. Will straights in the red states buy tickets to this? Gays! Sean Penn! San Francisco!
KB: The ones who want to meet their "one daring thing a year" quota might. With the Oscar help, I could see it hitting $40 million. I don't think it's a Brokeback, though. So have you soured on Milk since we began this discussion? "Sour milk." I didn't even intend that.
STV: Honk. I don't think so, I never thought it was extraordinary. But I guess the thing that really is most striking is that for the first time in 25 years, Sean Penn is a revelation.
KB: True, and he deserves everything he gets for it, STU VANAIRSDALE.
STV: I feel famous already.

Follow the jump for their respective two cents — mostly spoiler-free for even the most casual followers of the film, and naturally among the finest criticism available anywhere online.

STV: We should probably go into this acknowledging that the film is review-proof and completely saturated with things too interesting to spoil.
STV: That said, I just thought it was pretty good.
SA: I thought it was excellent!
STV: Yeah, yeah, fine. It's fitfully brilliant, but so heavy-handed. Did I miss something?
SA: Nope. This was the summer 2008 superhero movie for people who enjoy feeling awful, and thinking about feeling awful, and expressing what makes feeling awful so gosh darn wonderful.
STV: Iron Man this is not.
SA: It's misanthropy porn. It's also the bluest superhero movie I've ever seen, in every sense of the word.
STV: Right. From the start, too — those billowing blue flames, the Hong Kong horizons, Gotham at night.
STV: And yeah, everyone's depressed as hell.
SA: But that said, I don't think a single scene passed by that I didnt feel worked. And it was a long movie.
STV: What about the story? I was lost.
SA: The story was fine. Corrupt city government. Crime infested streets.
SA: It was sort of The Departed with bat-gadgets.
STV: But the Joker shows up wanting a piece of Teflon goombah Eric Roberts, the Russians, the blacks, and a Hong Kong money-laundering syndicate.
SA: Its the Mafia Olympics!
STV: Even if Gotham City is totally corrupt, it's the most equal-opportunity corruption in history, which I guess should be commended.
SA: Speaking of the Joker, what did you think of Heath?
STV: Heath was annoying.
STV: It's not his fault. Nolan couldn't rein him in.
SA: I was prepared for him to be annoying, but I actually really enjoyed him.
SA: I mean, its The Joker! This isn't a portrait in subtlety. You want hyena cackles!
STV: But look — and this is my problem with the whole movie: The audience is overwhelmed with moralizing.
SA: Yes, I'll agree it got bogged down in speechifying.
STV: The Joker is the default "Man, this world is fucked" mouthpiece, but his actions — just his very look — defy the monologues, the hamminess.
STV: He needs an origin story like the Burton Joker, right? Who the hell is this guy?
SA: Yeah — their not committing to his backstory was a strong choice, but I'm not sure it really helped them.
SA: But I think they were trying to say, "What does it matter where he came from?" Like, what does it matter where any psychopath comes from? He's chaos. But then you have no psychological in, so he's less interesting.
STV: Alfred the Butler touches on it: "Some people just want to watch the world burn."
SA: Yeah, but that doesn't satisfy dramatically.
STV: Even that was kind of overbearing.
SA: Nolan was reaching high with this. He obviously wanted the monologues.
STV: He's a great director, though, right? I mean, this film looks, feels, sounds amazing.
SA: That's why your quibbles don't bother me. This is his ride, and it's spectacular, and if he wants his speeches about human nature, I'll listen to them.
SA: He chose great actors to deliver them.
STV: But he's so much better at subterranean truck chases and high-altitude kidnappings. I want overturned big rigs!
SA: Well, luckily there's tons of those. And 180-degree, wall-flipping Bad Pods.
STV: And the Bat-Blobile. What was that? The Batmobile was a hulking blob of scrap on wheels.
SA: It was batass.
STV: OK, give me one-line summaries of the following actors' performances: Christian Bale.
SA: Obscene caller voice.
STV: Aaron Eckhart.
SA: Boringly delicious!
STV: Maggie Gyllenhaal.
SA: Made the most of the whiny token female.
STV: Michael Caine.
SA: Should have let him out of the fluorescent Batchamber more.
STV: He's basically a cockney Jiminy Cricket serving breakfast. How about Morgan Freeman?
SA: If God and Q had a kid.
STV: Gary Oldman.
SA: He gets swallowed up in it. He's one of the best actors ever.
STV: I think he's the best thing about it.
SA: Is he?
STV: He's a guy pulled 15 different ways, very flawed, vulnerable, and at his best when things are out of his control. He gets to work when shit hits the fan, while everyone else just sort of... talks.
SA: What did you think of Batman's voice?
STV: I didn't quite get it.
SA: Me neither. It was silly.
STV: He never closes his mouth when he talks, either! It lets all the air out of the big, portentous balloon.
STV: Is Heath Oscar-worthy?
SA: He'll definitely get a nomination.
SA: I sort of think the movie itself deserves a Best Picture nomination. It's just so ambitious and epic and so expensive-looking.
STV: This movie is going to make a fortune, right? I'm calling $140 million for the weekend plus $2 billion in damage caused by rioting fans worldwide.
STV: And I am a believer in IMAX.
SA: Oh, definitely. Those scenes were so cool.
STV: Bad format for preachy screenwriter moralizing, excellent format for hospital implosions and 10-minute chase sequences.
SA: OMG — that hospital. Yeah, I really loved this movie.
STV: It's not bad. I'll stick with Iron Man.
SA: Iron Man was fun; this was a nice compliment.
STV: The Dark Knight: Nihilism for the whole family.

What follows contains numerous spoilers, though not much that isn't distinguishable from the trailer or the word-of-mouth teeming around the Web this morning. In any case, if you want a virginal Indy experience when the film opens Thursday, we'd recommend skipping to the next item right about now. Or join in the fray as our wounded critical minds clear the air and let the healing begin.

STV: I'm reading a few OK reviews here and there.
SA: I did that too.
STV: I don't get it; that movie was not good.
SA: No. Bad. A.O. Scott said he was bored. The opening was the most engaging part, but still not great
STV: It was engaging-ish.
SA: The whole movie felt tone-deaf.
STV: But where Raiders was a throwback to the serials of yore, this was a throwback to Raiders and as such was both parodic and, yes, tone-deaf.
SA: The rambling exposition was ridiculous.
STV: SPOILER ALERT! Shia LeBeouf is his son! SHOCKER!
SA: There were no surprises, and I don't understand the plot.
STV: OK, so: Some Russians break into Area 51 with Indy and pal Ray Winstone as their hostages. They want something in the hangar there, but it's a bombing range. That sets up a nuclear bomb point that goes... poorly.
SA: Well, we return to the massive warehouse that ends Raiders. So instantly the reference is made: This is vintage Indy.
STV: OMG there's the Ark! I wish the Russians had stolen that.
SA: Yeah, me too. So the mean Russian lady cuts open the tinfoil-wrapped alien baked potato —
STV: The heavily magnetized tinfoil-wrapped alien baked potato!
SA: That only starts pulling metal towards it when Indy arrives. Action sequence, mushroom cloud.
STV: Indy escapes unharmed, but the Feds suspect him now because he aided the Russians. He gets sent out on a leave of absence from university! Blacklisted! Jim Broadbent shows up, does dignified Jim Broadbent shit: Drinks, has an accent.
SA: Indy addresses a series of framed 8x10s of actors who refused to sign on for the sequels and/or died. He boards a train — destination: unknown. Or can't recall.
STV: Here comes Shia La Brando.
SA: His hog is his steed.
STV: Who just happens to find Indy on a moving train — from the platform. They go have a burger and Cokes at the New Haven diner where the KGB also hangs out after lower-division biology class.
SA: Indiana explains the legend of the crystal skulls, but we miss it because were too preoccupied monitoring the table behind him and how they deal with the "Shia Rewetting His Comb In Their Glass of Coke" problem.
STV: Shia: "Ugh, this is Diet! Fuck!" Anyway, they fight off the KGB. A chase ensues. They lay waste to Yale, go biking through the library. Next stop Peru!
SA: Yes! The Redline Express to savage countries guarded by a loincloth-clad, brown-peopled nation.
STV: And there's Ray Winstone again, who betrayed Indy early on by selling out to the Russians.
SA: Do they find the skull at this point? Or fend off Russians?
STV: They find the skull, then are caught and taken to a Russian fairgrounds/labor camp deep in the Peruvian jungle, where comrades dance, Marion's being held hostage and Cate Blanchett digs out her Roswell space alien. The skull has mental powers — she wants to brainwash the world.
SA: Finally, we have some idea what this movie is about. Indy is in arm restraints and goes face to face with the crystal skull. This is no ordinary quartz skull that looks like an alien head! The skull hurts his brain!
STV: And mine! Anyway, they are reunited and they escape with Shia and John Hurt, who does an hour or so of crazy-man schtick. Quicksand, snakes... Fuck it, jump ahead 30 minutes.
SA: So they escape again with the skull. Are they in Incaland yet? Does all this take place in Peru, or are they in Mexico?
STV: Your guess is as good as mine.
SA: They arrive at a Mayan temple only accessible by removing stone chads. Suddenly! 50,000 dancing chihuahuas appear! Then they are certain this place has significance.
STV: I can't keep going. The end!
SA: Shia didn't need to be in this movie; nor did john hurt. WTF was that?
STV: Shia is the future of the franchise.
SA: The whole skull thing — carrying around a Lucite skull that seems to have 1,000 purposes? Repels ants! Scares savages!
STV: The ants were horrifying.
SA: That was at least, like, something to watch.
STV: SPOILER ALERT! Those fucking ants pulled that big Russian dude INTO AN ANTHOLE AND ATE HIM.
SA: That was cool; it at least had some bite. And did you notice how Indy doesnt put up a fight? He just keeps answering every question that she asked him. Right from the first scene! 'Where is it?' 'Well, it's over here!' Or, 'See theres this legend that goes...' I mean, what happened to spitting in their faces and saying, "Never!"
STV: Yeah, fuck that.
SA: I want the old Indy.
STV: I want the Indy who steals artifacts, destroys everything in sight.
SA: It felt like Invasion of the Indy Snatchers. And the end was a mess. I have no idea what the fuck that was nor did I care.
STV: I mean, that whole alien subplot was literally laughable.
SA: What about the triple waterfall sequence? I could hear an audible groan. I mean, if you're going to just have a car tumble down three waterfalls like a pachinko machine, don't warn us ahead of time
STV: But I love, love, love that long shot of the valley below them collapsing and the spaceship flying up. Storywise, it was absurd, but the shot was fantastic.
SA: I got angry when I saw the spaceship. I felt they ruined the franchise by making it so sci-fi
STV: Maybe so. But technically speaking, it was really well-done. But then there were the monkeys.
SA: Oh yeah. Shia turns into Tarzan. They really lost their minds, kind of.
STV: Shia as Marlon Brando as George of the Jungle. I'll take at least two more installments of that.
SA: What about the cactus-LaBeouf-cockballtorture sequence?
STV: Cactus is an interesting plant variant in the jungle.
SA: Indiana Jones and the Ow LaBeouf's Balls.
STV: And poor John Hurt!
SA: I wonder what he thought when he read the script: "He caresses the crystal skull again and mutters an unintelligible phrase."
STV: His character's name is "OX." Better than "THE ELEPHANT MAN," I guess
SA: The audience was mostly dead silent for the movie. There wasn't one moment when you felt joy. I mean, there's a few stunt sequences that were well-done. That first five minutes, I liked.
STV: The drag race was a good tone-setter.
SA: Oh! Get this: our sound was out the first minute of that, which is like an eternity when fanboys are rioting.
STV: Who were those people who came out of nowhere to beat up Indy and Shia with the Parkour action moves and the blowdarts?
SA: Oh, that was killer blowdart skull mask killer pygmies! They were guarding the sound stage!
STV: I think they symbolized the fans who were down on the whole idea of Indy 4 from the start. They kick LeBeouf's ass until Ford, symbolizing Lucas, shows up to blow a poison dart in their mouths.
SA: At least a blow dart was a reference point I got.
STV: And then there's M. Night Spielberg, who must never touch the franchise again. If LeBeouf comes back, as it seems he will, give it to someone else.
SA: My friend asked why he needs to have Transformers and Indy. It's true. How much LaBeouf can one nation swallow?
STV: This movie is gonna make so much money. Paramount is going to win the summer easily.
SA: I mean, my friend liked it. Maybe it was actually a fun summer movie, and we both need attitude readjustments. The problem is that Iron Man opened two weeks ago. If it hadn't, I honestly wouldn't have remembered that a summer movie can be good.
STV: I refuse to accept responsibility for a blockbuster sucking.
SA: Even Transformers seemed more emotionally true. Giant alien robots — something to care about. I wonder if the fanboys will revolt.
STV: This movie's gonna make $400 million next weekend.
SA: How much will it really make?
STV: This is Pirates/Spider-Man territory. If they're counting over Memorial Day, easily $140. Anyway, let's end on a positive note. Man, wasn't Iron Man great?
SA: Get Smart: In theaters soon!